00:00:04:18 - 00:00:22:27
Unknown
This episode contains stories of trauma related to domestic abuse. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call or text 988 or chat. Nine. Eight. Eight. Lifeline Talk.
00:00:22:27 - 00:01:00:03
Unknown
Welcome to It's Your Story to Tell. I'm Megan, and I am here with Rhea, and I'm really excited about the topic that we're going to be covering today. We're going to be talking about toxic relationships and how to start using your boundaries to improve your relationships. So thank you so much for joining me today. I'd love to share with you a little bit about Rhea and kind of her background why I feel like she is so important to sharing this message with you.
00:01:00:06 - 00:01:32:28
Unknown
So, Rhea, and it's a long list. So I just if I look at my notes, it's because she has an amazing background and it's a lot to remember. So she is a believer, a wife to a firefighter. I'm so thankful for your husband and his service. It's such an underappreciated job. You know, our police, our firefighters, our health care professionals who are on the front line in just what they go through every day to be there for us.
00:01:32:28 - 00:01:58:03
Unknown
And so thank you for being there for him, because I'm sure that it's important that he has such a supporter in his background. You are a mom to six. You have impressive. You do not look like you could be a mom of six. So well done there taking care of yourself. And you have a daughter in law that you love and are have a really connected special relationship with.
00:01:58:06 - 00:02:26:15
Unknown
You are a speaker, a writer. You have two books in the works. So you are going to be getting those out soon. You have started a podcast called Rise, which sounds so amazing and we will definitely link so you guys can check that out. But tell me what RISE stands for. Lisa stands for Restored Inspired strength and an empowered.
00:02:26:17 - 00:02:55:11
Unknown
Wow. And that is how I want every single woman to feel after they listen to my podcast or, you know, they will have an interaction with me or learn something amazing about them. So amazing. I really love that. And you are a perpetual learner and always looking to put things that you learn into action and you're passionate about helping women do the same.
00:02:55:14 - 00:03:31:09
Unknown
You are a coach and you have coach in many different things, but you are certified as a domestic violence advocate. You are just about through a new certification that's a Christ centered domestic abuse facilitator, and that's called her journey. Yes, and that's really exciting. And then you've coached people on marriage abuse, addiction, and that's because you have so many different things in your background, really, that you have overcome.
00:03:31:12 - 00:04:07:13
Unknown
And I am just so thankful that you're here with me. I love that you are determined to show people just the light and love of God and bring hope and inspiration to them. There's many facets of your story and we only have about an hour together, but I would just love if you would start kind of walking us through these different aspects of your life that are now qualifying you to help people really navigate hard things.
00:04:07:13 - 00:04:47:03
Unknown
And I know, you know, we're going to talk a lot about toxic relationships, but I think it's really important that we acknowledge that we don't end up in toxic relationships. Just coincidentally, things happen in our lives, in our childhood that then create narratives that we then act on. So would you walk our audience through a little bit about your story and where where for you did it start in your own life that you believe led to having toxic relationships?
00:04:47:06 - 00:05:10:27
Unknown
That's the big question, right? It's one that I've asked myself quite a bit. Where did this all start? Especially as a mom now, because you want to protect your kids from things. And so I want to protect my kids from what I went through. And so I'm always trying to look back and figure that out. And in I've been doing a lot of healing, a lot of learning and a lot of healing over the last five years.
00:05:10:27 - 00:05:39:24
Unknown
And in all of that, it's kind of led me to some memories and some realizations When I was young and I had a caregiver in my life that was an important part of my life who had some toxic things in their background that they then brought into raising me. Right. And caring for me. And she was really young on our side, actually.
00:05:40:01 - 00:06:02:18
Unknown
I was dropped off at my aunt's house for her to help kind of straighten me out and raised me for a little while. And I think at that moment it was kind of instilled in my mind, you don't have this as a five year old necessarily, but it just gets planted that I don't really matter you boys identity.
00:06:02:18 - 00:06:25:02
Unknown
And that's, you know, I didn't want to go live with my aunts. I wanted to stay home, but just feel like I don't have it enough for you to be kept at home. So I relate to it. It started in young age. The realization didn't come right away. It's in some digging. It sure for me to kind of get back to, Oh, actually this all started.
00:06:25:05 - 00:06:52:21
Unknown
I think that's such an important recognition. If people have listened to my podcast, which was episode one, I talked very summarily and I had a memory from about the age of seven that I was able to identify that started putting these beliefs and values the way I saw myself in a perspective that were just not healthy. It was not in line with who God created me to be.
00:06:52:24 - 00:07:23:21
Unknown
And it was it wasn't easy finding where that kind of started. But I think it's so important that we start asking ourselves these questions because I don't believe we can really start healing until we can get down to the root of where did that come from? Because we have to be able to go back in to those places and acknowledge, but then also speak truths about who we are and who God created us to be.
00:07:23:21 - 00:07:52:08
Unknown
So I thank you for for sharing that. And you know, you've now done that, where you located that. But like you said, it, it came later on in your life. So those values, the way you saw yourself. Would you say that that continually impacted you and the relationships that you had with others? Yeah, you know, from the start of that.
00:07:52:08 - 00:08:22:27
Unknown
And then just kind of, you know, continuing through childhood, that caregiver was not intending to and I have to believe that that person did the best using the tools that they had. It's in my heart to expect them to accept the best of somebody. And I think they just didn't have the tools to do any better. But then any time that I would try to speak up for myself, it was met with a reaction that I didn't like.
00:08:22:27 - 00:08:48:16
Unknown
And so then so then I would just learn to stifle my voice. And I got to I say, I taught myself. I didn't really teach myself. This is my environment. I was learning from that. It's better to just not figure for yourself. It's better to just be quiet. And then that kind of continued through the teenage years and I got into a book to launch into this.
00:08:48:16 - 00:09:24:06
Unknown
So make sure you know this question now, don't worry or ever, you know. So then in my teenage years, I got into a really predatory relationship, this what I would call it with someone who was ten years older than me. And so there was sexual abuse there for a year and a half. And looking back on that now, I've done so much healing from that and I'm a big advocate for it, and therapy has helped me to work through all of that and come out feeling just strong and empowered and children and all of that is gone.
00:09:24:06 - 00:09:51:19
Unknown
Now, I think about those memories, and I credit EMDR therapy and a good therapist and God for helping cure all that. But I've been able to recognize that when it first started, there was that piece of I just keep quiet. I would try to see, I don't want this, I don't like this. And it wasn't listened to. So then I just learned to just keep quiet, just shut up.
00:09:51:19 - 00:10:18:14
Unknown
And so that went on for a year and a half. And I was very it is is something that I buried for a really long time. But once I opened up the nightmares for a while before I ever got help with it, then I realized just how damaging that was for me to just have it instilled over and over and over again to me that I didn't I didn't have value and I didn't like it.
00:10:18:19 - 00:10:52:18
Unknown
Obviously. Now I know it's just what I was believing. That's not true. Right? Right. Our beliefs, though, create the actions that we take. And it also puts us into circumstances that are in line with our values. Right. So if we believe something, we are going to find people that reiterate that to us. And that is what is so difficult about trauma and having these really hard things that we go through.
00:10:52:18 - 00:11:25:08
Unknown
Is that because we then keep bumping up against more and more trauma because of our own beliefs and and it's a really hard cycle to break. You know, you talk about how we patch things down and, you know, I had good parents that were trying their best to and there were still things that happened in my life. And then because I didn't deal with them, I passed them down.
00:11:25:08 - 00:12:02:27
Unknown
And I talk about that with my son, who's going to be 21 in episode two of the podcast of how we pass things down. And, you know, I think it's so important as women and moms to recognize that things that happen, we experienced harm, but we have a choice and we can either choose to heal and do our work and pass down healing, or we can choose to not face these hard things.
00:12:02:29 - 00:12:39:29
Unknown
And then we're going to pass those things down to. Yeah. And I hope that you if you are a woman, a mother listening and you've experienced something really difficult, that is, you feel it's prohibiting you from being the parent that you know, you have the capabilities of you, that you would be encouraged and that you would not feel shame because our seems keeps us from being able to make a different choice.
00:12:40:02 - 00:13:10:08
Unknown
And one of the things that a mentor and coach helped me with is that when you know better, you can do better. Yeah, and you talked about that. And so we're here just to say, you know, we want to give you and increase awareness and also give you ideas on how you can move forward because we have to take personal responsibility for our own lives, even though we've had really hard things happen.
00:13:10:11 - 00:13:32:19
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. And I want to add that if you have gone through anything hard that is still there, whether it's coming out in nightmares or whether it's coming out in your daily life or you're being triggered and maybe it's being triggered and maybe it's just you reacting a certain way and you don't know why you react that way.
00:13:32:21 - 00:13:58:07
Unknown
You have something that you really like. Don't wait. Please don't wait to go get help for it. And you don't have to go with the first person that you talk to. If you seek therapy, counseling, you don't have to talk to this one person. Now I'm stuck with them and doesn't feel like a good fit. You can keep talking to other people, I guess, but do that work early on.
00:13:58:15 - 00:14:39:15
Unknown
Because what I did is I waited. Oh my goodness. If I need to be delayed 37 years of my life, like I just decided to keep seven and down and not. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I don't even know the number of years, but probably 20 years later, it's like finally was like, Oh, this is a problem. And what happens is, instead of it being a woman that you can just, you know, stitch up and heal, it becomes an infection that then is kind of deep down in there and is using and you have to clean it out.
00:14:39:15 - 00:15:03:09
Unknown
And for me, I think it would have been almost easier to deal with that right away than to go back years later when I had a family and I had a husband and I had a job and all these responsibilities and to try to navigate through all of these memories that then that opened up and all of that symptoms and everything that came from the illness.
00:15:03:11 - 00:15:34:01
Unknown
So I'm just I'm asking you to consider getting help sooner than later if you can, and just help start with telling your trusted friend or a last line because you will make a world of difference versus waiting years down the road. Yeah, and that's the whole idea behind It's Your story to tell is just empowering women to be willing to get vulnerable because it is the most uncomfortable thing to do.
00:15:34:01 - 00:16:15:08
Unknown
But it is the most essential thing to do. And it's also I love that you talk about being thoughtful about who you share your story with, and if something doesn't feel right that you don't stay there. And that's part of, you know, trauma and and quieting your voice and putting yourself below others is definitely one of those symptoms of having gone through trauma and having false beliefs about yourself.
00:16:15:11 - 00:16:47:12
Unknown
And so when you are opening up to people, it's this opportunity for you as well to begin trusting yourself again and listening to that still small voice that you've been silencing because it's going to help guide you to what are the best ways to deal with your trauma. You know, you love EMDR, and I think that's amazing. I have known lots of people who have had great success with that.
00:16:47:15 - 00:17:12:06
Unknown
For me, I needed a mentor and a coach. I had gone through so much, so many years of counseling, but for me it was just not I wasn't progressing. And so when I tried something different, I found a way that helped me to be able to move forward. And so not getting stuck in that I think is such a key component to this journey.
00:17:12:09 - 00:17:41:19
Unknown
So I had I did two years of talk therapy. Once I started with, I really made a decision to get help for years and years of trauma. And before that I had a couple of years here and there of talk therapy and it wasn't again, I won't say it didn't work for me, but it was very slow progress and then I did EMDR therapy for almost a year with one therapist, and then the pandemic shut everything down.
00:17:41:21 - 00:18:12:15
Unknown
And so I stopped and turned. And now I've had another EMDR therapist for me that EMDR works much quicker and in talk therapy and in just such a different way. But I've had two different therapists for that. I've had many different therapists over the years and try to get exposure therapy way back in the day. And that is not yeah, it doesn't sound very fun, especially like I'm just thinking about your story and toxic relationships and stuff.
00:18:12:15 - 00:18:37:01
Unknown
I'm not even sure how you do exposure therapy for some of those things, but Exactly. Yeah, but it was it's definitely been this journey of finding what helps me the most and what's going to work best. And, and I also will say that having a good support system makes a world of difference. Because when I first started, my husband was on board and supported me.
00:18:37:01 - 00:18:54:27
Unknown
So he thought that you didn't realize the storm that was coming when everything opened up and then it became really hard for him. And so I had to reach outside of that and find other support people and and I had to set boundaries of a therapy session. I gave some space to go for a while, that type of thing.
00:18:54:27 - 00:19:20:29
Unknown
So finding a good support system, but also being a good support system for yourself as you're going through this, it's all good to us to have, you know, to try different things, find what works for you, and then do your self care. Okay? Yeah. Well, and you know, self-care can be so many different things. And I focus a lot about self-care in the community.
00:19:20:29 - 00:19:51:21
Unknown
And it's your story to tell because when you have gone through hard things, a lot of times it's because you write, you don't know yourself, you're not listening to yourself. And self-care requires you to get to know yourself, to listen to yourself. And so it can be really uncomfortable. And in this day and age, let's just face it, success in the world looks like being busy, not taking time for yourself.
00:19:51:21 - 00:20:22:16
Unknown
Like I'm so proud of. My kids had this this, this. I didn't you know, I didn't start from six this morning until ten at night. And it's like this badge that we wear. Yeah. But it's actually that happy that we're in it. It's destroying us and our families and our children. And so I had to really reframe and retrain the way I engage in self-care, you know, because I wasn't ever taught that.
00:20:22:18 - 00:20:55:04
Unknown
And so I'm so glad that you brought that up. And then community, you know, and anybody who's been listening to, it's your story Tells podcast or looking on our social media, that has definitely been this is what it's your story to tell is is this community where you can find like minded people to encourage you because it is really hard to do this work and there's going to be days you don't want to do it, and that's okay.
00:20:55:07 - 00:21:39:02
Unknown
But by being in an environment that values doing this work and finding healing will allow you a greater chance of success and navigating it. So I think those are really important and I love that we got to that before we kind of get in to the hard parts of your story and how they navigate it, because I think if you are going through something, it's important that you start with equipping yourself before you dive into the deep end of really exploring the hard stuff.
00:21:39:02 - 00:22:19:16
Unknown
Because if you have not developed a supportive community around you, and if you don't have a counselor, a coach, a close friend, and you're not engaging in self-care, you are not going to have great success going through this and you're probably going to just create more trauma for yourself. So by setting these things in place first, I think people will have a lot more success in going through their own story and then rewriting it to be the one that they feel called to live.
00:22:19:16 - 00:22:54:13
Unknown
And you know that the purpose that they were placed on this earth to to do. And so so you talked a little bit about like where that belief was implanted, how because you had this belief, it puts you in these situations and relationships that kind of almost confirmed that belief for you out of those relationships. What do you mind sharing a little bit about kind of what you experienced as a result of those?
00:22:54:13 - 00:23:28:16
Unknown
You talked a little bit about sexual abuse, but what other things came into your life because of that? Because of toxic relationships? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one of those like, how much time do we have? Question This I give you a little snippet. The highlight of my story, which I really highlights the more like low life you can see where high times in my life.
00:23:28:18 - 00:24:08:04
Unknown
But after I got out of it was really getting out of that relationship because it wasn't relationship. But after I set boundaries and I closed the door with that which is really scary thing and I don't remember it. But after that, about a year later, I found out that I was pregnant and so I was a teenage mom and not letting anyone other than myself because I had made choices in that my son was actually, I believe, and I will say super hard to be a teenage mom and I would not recommend it.
00:24:08:04 - 00:24:42:17
Unknown
However, my son was my angel inside. I feel like saying I can get you out of this life because not only had I been in diapers, sexual abuse and everything like that, but I'd also been involved in some pretty heavy drugs. I used drugs as I think, a numbing system because I wasn't able to express the way that I felt and so the way that I felt was so overwhelming to me, I couldn't handle it.
00:24:42:17 - 00:25:00:26
Unknown
As a teenager, you got so much going on already anyway, and all of these hormones and every life is so hard and all of this stuff. And so I found out that friends just make you feel better. So I got into methamphetamines pretty heavy for four years, and then I found out that I was pregnant. I got it.
00:25:00:28 - 00:25:35:06
Unknown
So that's why I say he is my angel, baby. And that not to be confused with favorite child. My other teacher. Oh, he's my favorite child. No, favorite. Yeah, I do believe that. God use that to change my life around. And so then that could be the pretty package that just turns all this around. But after after giving birth and trying to turn my life around and do the right thing, being teenage mom, I did take all the things.
00:25:35:06 - 00:25:56:28
Unknown
I worked three jobs. I went back to school, all of these things to make a good life for him. And then I got into an abusive relationship. And it's so funny because even as I was in it softening, it's interesting you don't see that word. Yeah. As I was feeling and I was thinking, my parents didn't teach me arts.
00:25:57:01 - 00:26:26:01
Unknown
They didn't teach me to use they didn't teach me to put up with somebody talking to me this way. I was raised in a home where my parents were married. They were very kind to each other. They was like the typical American family. We went to church every Sunday. It looked picture perfect from the outside, but there really wasn't a lot of messy stuff inside, except that there was a term that was called generation transition being touched down.
00:26:26:04 - 00:26:47:25
Unknown
So I thought my parents raised me this way, to be talked to this way and be treated this way. So why is it why am I here? Why am I allowing this? And I have to say that the whole time I was in that relationship, there was a lot of confusion. Feelings of this isn't right. I shouldn't be talked to this way.
00:26:47:25 - 00:27:18:12
Unknown
I shouldn't be treated this way. I shouldn't be putting up with these things being done to me or my kids. Yeah. And then these irrational thoughts and now I call them that. But at the time it just confused me of but I'm in this relationship for this reason or I had my best friend passed away right before I got into this relationship and I met this person through my best friend's death.
00:27:18:14 - 00:27:54:15
Unknown
So in my 21 year old mind that was grieving so greatly, I wanted to believe that the reason that my best friend passed away was to meet this person and that there has to be a reason for their death. Right. It was so sad and it was a correction earlier than expected. And so I wanted to have a reason for it and I held on to that in and we find the funniest things to hold on to, the things that don't really matter when you're in a toxic or abusive or manipulative relationship.
00:27:54:16 - 00:28:13:22
Unknown
If you just kind of latch on to something or I latch on to something and hold onto that. And so it was either that thought or it was thought of as we had kids, you know, from him, Well, if I leave him, my kids are going to be without a dad. And so there's all these tug of war sure ups that would go through my head.
00:28:13:22 - 00:28:31:24
Unknown
But at the core of all that was how did I hear my parents and teach me this? And I know statistically that a lot of women who were in abusive relationships had abuse in their childhood. And so that's what was so confusing to me and what I kind of went back through and analyzed because I had a very analytical mind.
00:28:31:24 - 00:29:06:05
Unknown
I like to try and figure out how did this happen, was exactly that, How did I get here if I had a healthy family growing up? Yeah, and I can totally understand that because that was so much of my story and actually created even more shame in me because I'm like, I shouldn't be living like this. I shouldn't be experiencing this because I didn't have this level of trauma that I would have expected to have this kind of result of my life.
00:29:06:08 - 00:29:41:18
Unknown
And, you know, that's I think, one of the reasons that it was so important that I started this podcast was to kind of destigmatize that like big T trauma, little T trauma. Like none of that matters. It's like, how is it impacting you and what is the result and the evidence in your life of how it's impacting you And mine was just this like small thing that created like codependency and perfectionism and things like that that then resulted in different relationships.
00:29:41:18 - 00:30:11:08
Unknown
And then trying to keep things hidden because I didn't want people to look at me different then like I did have this good family. And if they saw this, then like, what is that saying? It's even saying about them and all of these different pieces that, that keeping it hidden too, because of my, my beliefs or wanting to look a certain way, continued to precipitate more damage to me.
00:30:11:10 - 00:30:42:00
Unknown
And so it wasn't until I could just be honest with my own experiences in not trying to like, relate it to anybody else's or compare it and just say like, this is clearly impacting me, right? And it's impacting my kids. And regardless of where it came from, I need to just face it and deal with it. I didn't have that peace of wanting to make my family look good, probably because I had gotten into such bad drugs.
00:30:42:00 - 00:31:08:06
Unknown
And with this life of running away and being the black sheep child for so long, but that was cured. And I am look back. But there was still this shame rolled up into it. That person excluded me a lot eventually. And it is a slow drip. It is not. And you know, knowledge, it's not something that happens overnight.
00:31:08:06 - 00:31:34:20
Unknown
If it was, you be able to see it so clearly and go, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up. This isn't okay, I'm out of here. But it's this gradual breaking it down. Mine started with comments of jealousy and you're looking at that person. And then I would try to defend it and then somehow this rolled into, you know, breaking into another cycle and another one.
00:31:34:20 - 00:31:58:18
Unknown
And eventually it became calling me names and just berating me for not paying his phone bill or whatever. There are so many things that built up, but then it got worse and worse and worse and worse. And I was like, I'm not fat. I must have all these things that he's got and then just really, really be talking to me that way.
00:31:58:20 - 00:32:17:14
Unknown
What is the Bible saying? There's got to be all of these things. No, God doesn't say all of these terrible things about me. And I don't see anywhere in the Bible that it releases. So there's verses that they turn the other cheek, but I don't see verses that tell me that I should stay in a relationship where somebody is continuously beating me down.
00:32:17:14 - 00:32:44:26
Unknown
Emotion. But then there's a piece of they hadn't touched me yet. So comparison, well, there's other women who have X, Y, and Z. It's so much worse for them. And just the silliest things which silence that voice inside me. Right. So well, you had those moments of where you were clarity, right. And asking questions and then. Yes, just.
00:32:44:26 - 00:33:13:24
Unknown
Yeah, right. And then you just and you've talked about holding on to something like some hope or there has to be a purpose in this. And I can definitely identify with that. But I'll say there is no purpose for being in an abuse situation like that. You know, there is I don't believe God wants you to stay in a place that is not safe.
00:33:13:27 - 00:33:53:14
Unknown
And if you are being called names or made to feel awful about who you are, that is some of the worst abuse to try to overcome, even sometimes more than like the physical part, because this is a part where they are Reprograming your mind with these messages that are meant to now control you so that it makes it harder and harder to get out and you take on more and more of the responsibility and the blame.
00:33:53:14 - 00:34:27:02
Unknown
And that is where, you know, you have given up all boundaries. You are allowing this person to cause you harm, which if you have children, then you're allowing it to cause them harm. And that was really hard for me when I actually accepted that my choices were also allowing this abuse towards my children, even if the hands were not, you know, put on them, it it was affecting them.
00:34:27:02 - 00:35:05:25
Unknown
And taking that responsibility and beginning to work. I also had a counselor that helped in the boundaries department, and that was while I was in it actually was working with both of us. Interestingly enough, and, you know, boundaries came really forced upon us with DHS getting involved and me having to realize the significance. And like you were saying before, don't wait.
00:35:05:26 - 00:35:37:26
Unknown
I mean, eventually you will come to a point where you have to face this like you can't run forever. And so you're just extending the damage to yourself and to those that you love. There's help, you know, out there and there's organizations and we'll link to all of those different things. So let's talk a little bit. We just touched a little bit on, you know, physical, emotional.
00:35:37:29 - 00:36:05:18
Unknown
Tell me a little bit about your perspective. You know, for me, I was sharing how emotional abuse was so much more difficult for me because it's what became a control factor in my life. And it changed the way I actually thought. And when physical abuse was occurring, I knew that was wrong. And I but I really struggled with, am I actually the wrong one?
00:36:05:18 - 00:36:37:08
Unknown
Am I doing the wrong things? When it was the emotional, it wasn't as clear cut like this is abuse or this is not. How was your experience? Because I know you face both emotional and physical, and we just want to be cognizant that not everybody is experience experiences always the same? Yeah. And so interesting just popped into my mind as you were talking with my husband, my now husband and I, there is even a different layer to that where it felt like emotional abuse.
00:36:37:11 - 00:37:02:00
Unknown
And I would say, but I can't leave because it's not there's nothing physical. Right? So we'll get to that in a little bit. But there's all these different layers in so many different situations and everybody has their own story, right? Everyone has a different experience. For me personally, the physical abuse started so small it started with like pulling my hair and my trigger.
00:37:02:00 - 00:37:39:01
Unknown
Anybody, just little things and then amplified to a night where I really should have died. And then the emotional stuff and the verbal and the financial. There was control, there was gaslighting. I don't know if we need to talk about what that means, but yeah, I think if you just explain a little bit about what gaslighting is, the gaslighting is basically when somebody convinces you that what you know to be true isn't true, that's the best way that I know To say it is there.
00:37:39:02 - 00:38:04:13
Unknown
So the other person is so skilled that they question you and they cause you to question your own reality. And they're so sure in their convincing of you or their argument with you that you start to say, We did. It actually happened that way, and then it just turns into Crazytown because you think that you're losing your mind because apparently you can't remember things.
00:38:04:13 - 00:38:27:14
Unknown
Right? So gaslighting basically, in a nutshell is that. And so I experienced the gaslighting, the financial, all of that, all of the facets of abuse. Right. I know the word for it. I hate to say it that way. I like to make jokes about things because it lightens the mood a little bit. I'm not really trying to make a joke about that kind of stuff is very serious.
00:38:27:14 - 00:39:09:08
Unknown
To go through, but all of those things were experienced differently by me than the physical abuse. When I am healing from my trauma, and especially in the EMDR therapy that I'm doing, processing through the physical events is very different. The pain is very different. The belief that it formed in me is very different than the particularly the verbal abuse, the verbal abuse where all of that was, like you said, meant to control and meant to make me believe that I wasn't anything well, not even that I wasn't enough, but just that I wasn't anything I wasn't worth anything.
00:39:09:10 - 00:39:44:29
Unknown
It just hits very differently for me. So in my to answer your question, in my situation, I would say that one wasn't necessarily worse than the other, but that they affected me differently. And the healing is different from each. Yeah, so that makes sense now. No, I can totally appreciate that. And, and I think it's so good that we can share different perspectives because you may be feeling something totally different than what you and I even described.
00:39:44:29 - 00:40:24:22
Unknown
And so it's, it's important to recognize there's like no one way to feel and there's no one way to heal. And that by tuning in to yourself, which is unfortunately so hard to do when you've experienced abuse because of the whole gaslighting, the experience is they take away your identity and you have to in order to survive. If you stop listening to everything that comes up in you because you're like, Wait, it turns into a battle.
00:40:24:22 - 00:41:01:04
Unknown
It turns into, you know. And so doing this work requires you to begin developing your skill to listen in a village, your inner voice, and that will guide you. So I love that you shared that. And what else have you learned as you've gone on this journey of healing from really hard stuff? Yeah. So I mean, we could take 5 hours so I could stay, but I don't know that people really want to tune in for 5 hours.
00:41:01:04 - 00:41:31:12
Unknown
So in a nutshell, those things were major portions of my life and things that I really had to go back and get healing from. However, it's not the only part of what led into this, this issue of me, you know, not having a voice, not using my voice. I had a voice all along. It was there. I just felt too much fear to use it and kind of conquering that.
00:41:31:12 - 00:42:05:02
Unknown
It's been it's been such a long journey that it would take a really long time to tell about all that. But something that I really do want to share is this just on my heart? It just kind of popped in. If you're going through something and you're hearing these stories, my story or someone else's story from your podcast and you're thinking, I don't have anything that bad, my stuff isn't traumatizing or My stuff wasn't abuse or whatever.
00:42:05:04 - 00:42:32:02
Unknown
Each of us has this gut feeling and each of us has this. I don't know how to say it, but what's okay to us and what's not. And I spent a long time in my marriage trying to figure out is this actually okay again, because I was on physical abuse, because he didn't outright call us names. And I would love to get more into that story, depending on how much time we have.
00:42:32:02 - 00:42:49:12
Unknown
But my husband and I came from a very and he has given me permission to share that. He has given me full permission to share all of this. We've done so much work. He has done an incredible amount of work, and our marriage is incredibly strong and healthy now. And a year and a half ago I didn't think that I'd be saying that.
00:42:49:12 - 00:43:06:25
Unknown
But for about eight or nine years of our marriage, it was incredibly toxic. We were both very codependent and we didn't even know what that word meant. And you hear the word codependent and you think, Oh yeah, okay, codependent, anonymous, whatever. You know, that's what I thought I'd heard of that group. And so I thought, Yeah, yeah, that's them, right?
00:43:06:25 - 00:43:30:25
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, that I've heard all throughout podcast episode where I was like, I'm not codependent. So I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you pretty much are the definition if you read it. So, you know, people are asking, I just like to say if, you know, codependency is, is basically like you will do for others at the expense of yourself.
00:43:30:25 - 00:44:04:03
Unknown
Like there is no acknowledgment, there's no boundaries. You're probably exhausted, anxious, overwhelmed or in my situation it was trying to control the situation, trying to control how I felt from it. I didn't want him to react a certain way. I was able to release his feelings to him because as soon as he had his feelings and his emotions and I'm referring to my husband, then I felt fear because my past, I felt just this incredible anxiety.
00:44:04:03 - 00:44:23:23
Unknown
Sometimes I would get so triggered. I was back in a war zone just from him having this little edge to his voice because he wasn't speaking to me in a kind of town. It was kind of extreme. When I look back on it, we both had to do a lot of work. I had to do a lot of work on my triggers and on setting boundaries not only with him but with myself.
00:44:23:25 - 00:44:53:07
Unknown
So I kind of went off topic a little bit, talking about the marriage stuff. My main point was that it isn't always very obvious what is okay and what's not okay. And I brought up my marriage stuff because specifically for years I thought that this is just something that I have to live with. This is just something that I'm married and this isn't outright abuse.
00:44:53:09 - 00:45:19:21
Unknown
So I just have to be a good wife and, you know, just stay and do my best and tell him how I feel. But then if he keeps, it's just so muddy. It was so unclear. And I remember my biggest thing. I love clarity. I love to know I want a game plan. I know exactly what I need to do, and then I'm golden until I have clarity and things, I often feel very overwhelmed.
00:45:19:21 - 00:45:56:08
Unknown
And in my marriage, I didn't feel clarity because it was it wasn't direct abuse, but it felt so bad to me. And so one of the things that I'm very passionate about other women understanding is that if it doesn't feel right to you, it doesn't matter whether other people think it's okay or not so good. And that was kind of the point that I wanted to get to initially, was that if it just doesn't feel right, then just trust that and no one else has to tell you that they agree or.
00:45:56:08 - 00:46:23:08
Unknown
Not no one else has to tell you that. You're right. If you feel like it's not okay, then listen to that and act accordingly. Whether that's setting boundaries or leaving the situation or reaching out to somebody for help. But listen to it. Don't just stifle it. That's your voice inside that is so important. And the sooner you listen to it, the sooner you can become a healthier version of you.
00:46:23:10 - 00:46:47:25
Unknown
Yeah. So all of that really affected the the lack of boundaries, the lack of voice that I had been using really affected my marriage because like I said, I there's so many things that just didn't feel right, the way that he would get angry and I would get triggered, or that some of the things that he said when he was angry, they just didn't feel right.
00:46:47:27 - 00:47:08:29
Unknown
They weren't the black and white. He wasn't calling names. He wasn't doing anything that someone else would maybe listen to and say, that's not okay. But to me it wasn't okay. I didn't want that in my home. I didn't want that in my family. And I had tried to express my and I'm going to say way a little bit into a different subject matter here.
00:47:08:29 - 00:47:34:23
Unknown
But I had tried to express that to him for so many years, and he just wasn't hearing it. And my husband had his own stuff, too. He had the way that he was raised. He had his own stuff that he was dealing with a very small amount of tools that he was using. Again, I have to believe that he was doing the best that he could with the tools that he had and with the boundaries that I wasn't setting to honest.
00:47:34:25 - 00:48:01:04
Unknown
I want to take ownership of that because I didn't realize that I could set boundaries and enforce them and follow through with them. And so I just didn't set boundaries. And it's almost like I gave him permission to walk all over me, right? So he was using all of that stuff and just going along about his business and in the meantime kind of reentering me instead of helping me to heal from the things that I had been through.
00:48:01:11 - 00:48:22:03
Unknown
And it was just a big toxic mess. And again, he knows all this. He's he's grown from it. But at the time he would not listen to me or could not listen to me. And so at some point I just reached my wit's end and I had tried to set some boundaries, but I wasn't great at enforcing them.
00:48:22:06 - 00:48:47:10
Unknown
And enforcement part is really hard. Yeah, it's just letting me love someone by leaving. You want to see the best in them? It's hard to. At least it was for me to follow through that so mean for me. The big question was, can I I to does that make me a mean person? Right? Am I supposed to just lay down, let this happen, and being in the church and not following the church?
00:48:47:10 - 00:49:32:23
Unknown
But there is a lot of this encouragement of I don't know how to say it, but kind of being the good wife, right, and turning the other cheek and just friggin 70 times seven. Yeah. And like forgiveness is again, it's for us. Forgiveness does not mean saying, you know, and I definitely I agree with you. There can when you are in the church it can get very confusing on how do I honor God and follow these commandments and scriptures and things that he's laid out and how do I have boundaries?
00:49:32:25 - 00:50:02:23
Unknown
Which is so interesting because the Lord has a lot of boundaries in us, right? And there's consequences to our decisions. We have free will. But when it comes to then going in and putting those on others, that can be a struggle. And I was with you there on that and I had a lot of hurt within the church and my own belief about things that actually kept me staying in the situation.
00:50:02:23 - 00:50:25:28
Unknown
I'm a lot longer than than I should have. And I know that that's not just my story. That's many women story. Yeah. And the thing is, with boundaries that we're not really putting them on others. We're putting them up for ourselves. Right? And there's a great book called Boundaries that talks about how actually there's another one called Good Boundaries and Goodbyes.
00:50:26:01 - 00:51:01:24
Unknown
We're going to leave here. We're going to well, we'll link to it because I think those guidelines, the boundaries one is great. The boundaries of marriage is a great one. Families just can't is a good way in my nature. Show it. There's lots of great books and they talk about how a boundary is like a fence line. And if your neighbor just keeps stepping over your fence line and doing things to your yard that you don't want them to do, then that's crossing your boundary and it explains it in a way that was really helpful to me to understand that a boundary isn't me saying I'm going to change you.
00:51:01:26 - 00:51:38:21
Unknown
A boundary is me saying I'm not okay with X, Y, and Z, and if you continue to do X, Y, and Z, then it's going to be a problem. Okay, here's an example of a boundary. If I'm riding in the car with somebody and they're driving really erratically and I feel unsafe because of the way that they're driving, then I can say to them, Can you please stop driving erratically and keep the distance between the car that's in front of you or stops swerving out of whatever it is that they're doing, and then they have a choice to either, yes, I will drive safer and do what I'm asking, or they can continue to keep
00:51:38:21 - 00:51:55:11
Unknown
driving erratically. And then I now have another choice. It's kind of past back and forth. So now I have the choice of whether I'm going to say, please stop the car and getting out or if I'm going to continue to stay in an unsafe environment. And that is for me what boundary setting has been. It's not placing it necessarily on another person.
00:51:55:14 - 00:52:20:22
Unknown
I make a request. I say, here's my boundary I would like you not to cross it. And if they continue crossing it, then I say, okay, and now here is my action right now. I'm going to get out of the car in the situation with my abusive relationship, my boundary enforcement was I'm leaving the relationship and I had tried all the things to make our relationship work.
00:52:20:22 - 00:52:41:19
Unknown
As a matter of fact, there's a statistic about how many times women leave abusive relationships. I believe my count was a dozen, and that's pretty high compared to this statistic I have tried so many times and the final time, God just really was there an introduced the right people into my life, step into my life to help me.
00:52:41:21 - 00:53:12:28
Unknown
So with that, I ultimately had to set that boundary and then I had to continue setting boundaries because I was stuck a year and a half. So I had to get a legal boundary, a legal document to help keep me safe. And then communication kept happening that was unhealthy. So I had to continue enforcing boundary boundaries. There's no amount of work that I could have done on myself in that relationship that would have made things safe, that would have made him to start being toxic and abusive and narcissistic.
00:53:12:28 - 00:53:32:12
Unknown
Because and just to clarify, this wasn't the relationship with your husband. This is going back, right, Going to be like an original. Yes. Yeah. And so I was in that relationship for six years and even in that relationship, I had a lot of back and forth, What am I allowed to do? What am I allowed to set boundaries?
00:53:32:12 - 00:53:56:00
Unknown
So confusing right in it. Yeah. So in that relationship setting the boundary meant leaving and not looking back because there was no change. And there's still to this day has been no change in that person. And I had to set a boundary with my caregiver relationship as well at some point because it was just getting so hard for me.
00:53:56:00 - 00:54:21:04
Unknown
It was weighing me down and it affected me really emotionally. Every time that I was around this person and I had set boundaries for years that were continuously crossed. And so then I had to set a very big boundary of I'm not going to have interaction anymore. So that was or, you know, very limited, very interaction. And that was a really hard boundary for me to say it with somebody who had been a caregiver to me as a child.
00:54:21:06 - 00:54:42:24
Unknown
But it was very needed and it ended up with me being able to work through a lot of myself and get more emotionally healthy and to work on forgiveness, which has been an amazing ride, a very difficult ride. Forgiveness is not something that comes easy if you've been really hurt, particularly from a young age, and it's not something that you just flip a switch.
00:54:42:24 - 00:55:03:11
Unknown
And it happens that for me it's been an everyday choice, right? But it's just so good. God is using it for so much good. So that was another boundary that I had to set and enforce. And then in my marriage, this is the third one where in this situation I set in enforced boundaries and I'm going to be fully transparent here.
00:55:03:13 - 00:55:31:20
Unknown
I kicked him out of the house. It was a big I cannot do a thing where I cannot stay in this house with you. It was and I had tried setting smaller boundaries first that were still being crossed. And so this was like the big one. And you and I have talked about this, my husband and I speaking about now over the last year and a half, as our marriage has healed and he's done the work and I've done the work and he has said that was kind of a turning point for him.
00:55:31:23 - 00:56:06:23
Unknown
He also said, I wanted to divorce you and only reason that I stayed was because of the kids. And it's a good thing you have kids because you do this. Yeah, I think he was joking, but but it was a God thing, really. And not so much pRheaing during that time after I stepped out boundary and he was so angry and I was so confused and there were so many emotions and I would just go out in nature, which I highly recommend, that is self-care coming out in nature, going for a walk, sitting by a pond, sitting by water is incredibly relaxing and good for the nervous system.
00:56:06:26 - 00:56:30:18
Unknown
Yeah. So I would go out in nature and I would just pRhea and cry. And at one point I remember so distinctly hearing God say that I was going to have joy no matter what. And either I was going to have joy with my husband in the marriage if he did the work, or I was going to have joy by myself without him if he didn't.
00:56:30:25 - 00:56:48:29
Unknown
And I just knew that it was going to be okay no matter what. And from that moment, I had peace. And from that moment, I think that's when changes started happening in our marriage. And I work ahead due to. Sure. I'm not saying that it was all him, but for eight or nine years I had been trying to do the work and when the other person isn't, it is incredibly hard.
00:56:48:29 - 00:57:16:15
Unknown
So all that just to say that here's a third relationship where I needed to set and enforce boundaries and that one had this incredible ending and all of them are incredible endings and they're needed endings, But some of them are kind of sad, right? Yeah. Sometimes you wish that you had reconciliation and setting boundaries doesn't always make that happen.
00:57:16:18 - 00:57:44:20
Unknown
Sometimes there is no reconciliation, there is no change in that other person. My third example, by the grace of God, there was change in that person and there was change in that relationship. And so it's just so incredible to look back on all of it and to look at toxic relationships really, that I have had and healing that has happened in me, but also the boundaries that I've had to and then what's come after that.
00:57:44:23 - 00:58:12:02
Unknown
And so that's one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about talking about these relationships and just the different different directions that they can go. But the main point in all of them is I had to start with me setting a boundary, frankly. Yeah, so good. I really love that the Lord showed to you that you'll have joy either way.
00:58:12:03 - 00:58:48:01
Unknown
Yeah. And that was a really hard thing for me to recognize, is that we all have free will and we can want something. My story with boundaries didn't in the way your story did, you know? And yet I still have joy. And I have a husband now that I have the most amazing connection with and that loves me and supports.
00:58:48:04 - 00:59:29:10
Unknown
But I had to do the work first because I would have never been ready for that. And I wanted it to look a certain way. I wanted my marriage to be healed and I felt like, Lord, I've been asking you this, please do it. And when he showed me that I needed to allow my ex-husband now to have his own free will, because what abuse is, is when we don't allow for free will, like for other people to do the things that they want.
00:59:29:10 - 00:59:54:05
Unknown
And we are in some way trying to control it. And for me, I was like, I'm a good wife and I'm doing all these Christian things. And the Lord was like, Yes, but you are wanting something and forcing trying to force him into something that he's not wanting. And I had to let go of that and say, okay, but I still want a healthy relationship.
00:59:54:08 - 01:00:23:29
Unknown
And it didn't look like the way I thought it was going to look. But I still have the healthy relationship, so I love that he showed you that. And as I have walked this journey and learned boundaries, I have lost a friend that I thought we were best friends, you know, and when I had to make a decision that was in the best interest of where my family was at and they didn't understand it, and then our relationship was lost.
01:00:24:06 - 01:00:47:14
Unknown
What the Lord showed me was the relationship you thought you had, wasn't the relationship you really had, because someone should be able to understand your heart and respect your position. And it doesn't mean that you get it all your way right, because you have to sometimes negotiate things, but there's some things that you just know. I can't do that now.
01:00:47:14 - 01:01:26:01
Unknown
Yeah. And so I am just so thankful for you sharing with our audience and just being so vulnerable about your journey and how the Lord has worked and healed and done so much in you. And I am so excited to bring you on as one of the coaches in the collective of because I think you are going to have such a ministry with women and helping them navigate this very difficult road.
01:01:26:05 - 01:01:59:12
Unknown
Yeah, and I know for me in getting out, like you said, statistics of getting out of these relationships is very high. I think it's like I want to say it's nine don't quote me, it's like a pretty high And I was up there too. And the number of times that I tried to leave and it wasn't until I had somebody who could literally walk with me and help me untangle my mind.
01:01:59:12 - 01:02:32:25
Unknown
And the lies you talked about the confusion. And for me, having someone walk alongside of me, that I could send a message to and say, this is what's happening. Like, what's the truth? Because I couldn't even think clearly for myself. And then having someone who helps me discover my values, what is my identity? And all of that work is so powerful in changing your relationships from toxic to healthy.
01:02:33:02 - 01:03:04:00
Unknown
Yeah. And so it's pretty exciting. The collective in these women that are coming along to walk with women and their journeys and helping them to discover just how to be healthy. So thank you for joining me, not just on this podcast, but in this adventure. And I tell you, it was not something I did by myself. There's all of this stuff and the place that I've made it to today, it was not alone.
01:03:04:03 - 01:03:30:17
Unknown
I am a very driven learner and I read so many books and I listen to so many podcasts and trainings, and I'm always trying to learn about the brain and how to better myself. But all of those relationships that I navigated through in order to shed those boundaries, I had a coach or a counselor or a trusted friend who helped me when I actually made the decision to ask my husband to leave the house.
01:03:30:19 - 01:03:48:05
Unknown
The craziest thing. That day I walked into a Bible study that I've never been to an hour late. I didn't know I was an hour late. And so they were ending basically. And sat down and met a couple of women. And I was like, okay, this is a strange thing. I have really heavy heart today, but I'm late to this Bible study.
01:03:48:05 - 01:04:08:23
Unknown
And it was just really the way everything turned out. But then this lady at the end of it, she just asked me a question and I remember what it was. But the floodgates opened. A total stranger had no idea who she was. And I said, I'm about to ask my husband to leave. And I don't know who this woman is, but she said, Oh, my goodness.
01:04:08:23 - 01:04:26:16
Unknown
And she comforted me and let me cry on her. And then she said, Can I connect you to somebody who has experienced something really similar to what you're going through? And so then I was connected to this amazing friend of mine now who literally helped coach me through probably the first 6 to 8 months of things with my husband.
01:04:26:16 - 01:04:45:01
Unknown
And we also were able to get some couples counseling. That was really good. We had great tools that helped us, but I can't tell you how many times I messaged her or called her and said, Here's the situation and she had already navigated through this a year or two before. And so she was able to help me, and now I'm able to help other women.
01:04:45:01 - 01:05:08:15
Unknown
Now I'm able to do that for other people because I've navigated through these things and I believe that God uses our pain and God uses the things that we go through and not only uses it to help one person, but he multiplies it in the same way as, you know, the loaves and the fishes that were just started out as a couple little things, and then they were multiplied to feed the 5000.
01:05:08:18 - 01:05:37:20
Unknown
I believe that God uses our pain in the same way. If we just give it to him and just say, Use me God and use it for your good, then it will multiply into thousands and more. Yeah, yeah. Story. So. Oh, that was so good. You just in there, that closes out perfectly if you are struggling, if you're in a relationship, if you don't know what to do, you can reach out either.
01:05:37:22 - 01:06:10:21
Unknown
The best way is going to be going to the website. It's your story to telecom. You can schedule a call. It's at no cost. I want to whether you join as being a client, I want to help you get to the right resources and know that you're not alone. So please don't sit there wondering if someone can help you because you can get help and you can change the life that you are currently in.
01:06:10:21 - 01:06:34:02
Unknown
And I just want to encourage you to be brave and to step out in something that feels so big and so uncomfortable, but that when you do, you are taking a step towards the life that you were created to be, the life that you know is inside of you because you're questioning if where you're at is where you're supposed to be.
01:06:34:08 - 01:07:00:05
Unknown
So remember to listen to that still small voice that is wanting to direct you to find your purpose because you are created with a purpose. You're loved and valued. And sometimes we need help in uncovering that. But that doesn't mean it's not there. Just like you said, your voice was always there and finding it was the journey. So thank you for being here.
01:07:00:12 - 01:07:21:22
Unknown
Thank you so much for having me. And I do have resources on my website too. If women are feeling triggered, I have some panic resources on there. What to do if you're starting to have a panic attack? Some great songs that have spoken to my heart and helped me in many different healings healing are circumstances just things that I want to share with you that could just be a little bit of a tool for you.
01:07:21:22 - 01:07:41:01
Unknown
So we'll link. Yeah, we'll link up to those for you and, and thank you for you and the work that you are doing. Thank you for you. That should be a new thing. I like that. I'm proper English, but I like it when good. But just the amazing work that you're doing and the heart that you have to help.
01:07:41:03 - 01:08:01:14
Unknown
It's incredible. And I know that that is God given. And I know that you are so modest and you're not going to pump yourself up or talk yourself up in that way. But really it is a gift from God and he is using. You think the I think you to God be the glory. And he does turn our purpose to take our pain and turn it into purpose when we allow him.
01:08:01:14 - 01:08:08:03
Unknown
So we look forward to seeing you on our next podcast. Thank you for your time today and have a blessed day.
01:08:08:03 - 01:08:24:01
Unknown
New podcasts every Friday. Listen and subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. If you're ready to start your own transformation journey, visit w w w that it's your story to tell. Dot com.
01:08:24:11 - 01:08:53:17
Unknown
This podcast is intended only for educational, inspirational and entertainment purposes. The purpose of this podcast is not to replace the counsel of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available, call or text 988 or chat 988 lifeline dot org.
